BISHOP BAKER OCHOLA
is a respected religious leader in the Acholi region who has been involved in efforts to pacify the region since 1994. Now under the umbrella of the Acholi Religious Leaders Peace Initiative (
ARLPI),he is one of the observers at the on-going Juba peace talks between the Government of Uganda and Lord's Resistance Army (LRA).
He told EDRIS KIGGUNDU why mistrust could hamper the talks” the best option of bringing peace to a region that has been embroiled in a 20 year-old conflict.
You have been involved in the Juba Peace Talks since they began. As an observer, would say they are progressing well?
From the time the Juba Peace Talks started in July 2006, they were progressing steadily until the end of 2006 when the LRA walked out. But before this they had signed the first agreement known as the Cessation of Hostilities. We worked very hard at the beginning of 2007. We had a meeting in Juba and later we went to Likwang-ba three times to persuade the LRA. The LRA agreed that the venue remains Juba and that Dr. Riek Machar continues to be the mediator. By April, the peace talks had re-opened and on May 2 they signed another agreement known as Comprehensive Solutions to the Problems of Northern Uganda.
Ever since the talks began, we have seen the LRA make a number of demands, like being included in the central government. This has at times stalled the talks but do you think some of these demands are realistic?
The demands are personal things because if the LRA wants to join government and government agrees, that is up to government. But what we are talking about here is how do we bring peace in Uganda? The way of bringing peace is only through reconciliation.
You have been at the talks, would I be right to say that both parties appear not to be genuinely interested in the talks but are doing so under various pressures?
There is pressure but I think there is some level of commitment. Government used to call those people terrorists and you cannot sit with terrorists. That is a level of commitment and let us not under-rate that.
Any aspects of the talks that you think need to be changed?
Both sides have to increase their level of commitment because even the LRA, by the fact they moved away from Uganda and went to the DR Congo border, it means that they wanted peace. We want to see the level of commitment which will allow both the government and LRA to completely trust each other. The talks could be done here in Uganda, say in Gulu.
Looking at both sides, do you think they have truly gained confidence in each other, or there are still suspicions?
Of course there is still a lot of mistrust but somehow they have developed some confidence in each other because they have been sitting together for one year now. So far the peace talks in Juba are going on well. Before they came for the consultation meetings they signed the third agreement known as Principles of Accountability and Reconciliation. So they have now come to make consultations because when they go back they will have to develop mechanisms and proceedures for implementation of these principles.
Within this third agreement, government says they are going to try the LRA for some of these heinous crimes. But some people, like in Teso, believe that the LRA should be forgiven without any reservations.
People do not understand when we talk of forgiveness. There are many ways to bring justice. In the formal court you go through a truth telling process to establish the truth. In the informal system you also go through the truth telling mechanism. But when the formal court knows the truth, they jump to administer justice through punishment and you know punishment causes polarisation between the warring parties. So we say that the best solution to the problem should be the cultural justice system known as Mato Oput.
Why Mato Oput?
Because it is pro-life and holistic in the sense that the justice system in looking for restoration of the broken relationship. It looks at the restoration of the lost human dignity because when people fight and kill each other; in the process they lose their humanity. You become less human being. We are all created in the image of God so if I kill, I lose my humanity. I am less than a human being but this system restores this. It is complete. It is also forgiving. The court system does not forgive. The Bible says there is no peace without forgiveness.
How does it take care of reconciliation because there are some people who might not forgive the offenders if they think they are not punished decisively?
Under the court system there is no reconciliation. Under the Mato Oput there will be reconciliation through accountability. Government and LRA have agreed that accountability cuts through both sides. Both of them will be accountable to the people of Uganda. This accountability leads to reconciliation and when you go to reconciliation you must go through the truth telling process. There will be mercy, justice and peace, which is different from the court system because it jumps from truth to justice.
How do you think government should handle elements of UPDF who committed crimes?
They (government) have to accept their responsibility for failure to protect the lives and property of the people of northern Uganda, for failing to stop the abductions of children. This is real and government can say sorry.
Government also says that it will not be possible to compensate all the victims of the insurgency because of limited resources. What is your view?
Government cannot talk like that. They have to consider those who have been killed, people who have been maimed permanently, and people who have been abused, like women. The second reparations that have to be done are memorials for the dead. There are some people who died and they are not known. You have to build structures like schools in their remembrance.
Another factor that has stalled the talks is the issue of ICC indictments, which the LRA wants dropped if they are to sign the Comprehensive Peace Agreement.
The ICC is not even the problem because government and the LRA have agreed that they will develop their own mechanism to resolve the problem through reconciliation. They have to take this cultural reconciliation mechanism to Parliament in a legal form to become a law so that the ICC can go through it.
Don't you think this issue if not well resolved will ultimately bring the talks to a premature end?
Yes, but it depends on how the LRA will understand it because some people are telling the LRA that let it first be taken away. The ICC just plays the role of supplementing the dispute resolution mechanism and they cannot over-rule the sovereignty of Uganda. So if Uganda can meet the international standards of justice, ICC doesn't have a role to play in Uganda.
Government says the LRA should embrace the talks more because they are a spent force who can no longer sustain war. Do you think so?
You know, this is not a conventional war so you cannot do this kind of assessment. A rebel is somebody who fights in the bush. The government agreed to talk to the LRA because the LRA still had the guns. That is a fact. The reality on the ground is that these people are still a power. They are not defeated so they are not negotiating with government from a weak position.
What do you think remains the biggest challenge to the signing of the peace agreement?
Mistrust. You see mistrust is a terrible thing. If I don't trust you, whatever you say I don't believe it. Government and the LRA do not trust each other fully. That is why we are in Juba talking, otherwise we would be talking from here in Uganda.
Last word?
The prospect of losing the peace is still there because of the level of mistrust between both parties. But as spiritual leaders we are fundamentally optimistic that where human feeling fails God will do miracles. I appeal to government and the LRA to be honest with the people of Uganda. Whatever they do must lead to reconciliation which will lead to total peace. The only way to get peace is through the process of reconciliation.
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Learn more about acholi(Acholi) here is the link.
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writer: ekiggundu@ugandaobs
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Listen to what what Bosmic Sang about Bishop Macleord Baker Ochola II ! Click the link below:
Too paco
PS: Below is Bishop Macleord Baker Ochola II is seen standing by the ruins of a car blownup by a land-mine; his wife Winifred died in the explosion. (Photo: The Rev Christopher Carey/CMS)
Click here to watch the interview 
